Interational Dynamic Ving Tshun Association
My meeting with LUN KAI in 1995
My trip to China
In 1995 i went on a trip to travel trough China. My student Mike escorted me to Hong Kong and Fatshan home of the GGM YIP MAN. The journey to the roots of my way of martial arts had a great importance to me and it was a very enlightening and interesting experience. Some pictures were posted for some time on my webpage for you to see and of course i used this trip as a opportunity to meet with students of the GGM YIP MAN.
" if you are scared then leave it".
Iwhenwe arrived in Hong Kong GM Leung Ting offerd me to meet four masters on my round trip and asked me “ if i was willing to challenge them “ out of curiosity i asked him who these masters were and he replied “ if you are scared then leave it“.
It was a true test of whiz for me cause i did not know what i was about to get into nor did i know who these masters will be and what kind of Kung Fu style the practiced and how old they were i did not have a clue! i chose to consent i did not want to stand as a coward in the presence of GM Leung Ting.
The first meeting.
The first meeting with the honourable master LUN KAI was held in a hotel in the province of Fatshan. I was accompanied by GM Leung Ting and the chief instructor of the chinese police. It supposively should have been a friendly meet and greet scenario an a exchangement between traditional chinese wing chun and the europeanised Wing Tsun developed by GM Leung Ting.
"Idol of Fatshan"
Whoever believes that master LUN KAI was an old and fragile man is truely wrong in fact he is known as “ the idol of Fatshan“. LUN KAI is a original and direct student of GGM YIP MAN and a respected person such as fighter he has never lost a fight even if he was an older person and despite of his age LUN KAI was very powerful very fast very agile and a highly skilled master and by the way who says that a older person cant be dangerous?
It was probably his status and pride wich led him to launch all these attacks against me so i played my part in his “ game “ but stuck to „playing“ by only attempting strikes and possible hits. i was aware of the fact that LUN KAIs reputation i was a big factor to him so i concentrated on just controlling him. most of my strikes were held back and if i realy did touch him it was harmless and slightly but yet controlled.
I stopped most of my hits a few inches from my goal.
Those out there that do know me can reinsure to you that i never back up and in this video footage you can clearly see that i was backing up working against my instincts.
Master Lun KAI increased the pressure till it got to a point where i would have to react just in order to not get hit myself. It was clear that he was the older more experienced teacher but i myself had a international reputation to defend as well plus i was representing the skills of my Dai sifu who was also the head Sifu of the EWTO organisation.
The footage clearly displays the power and energy that he used against me. His attacks can be easily pointed out and as we practiced he slaped me right in my face ( remember the friendly meeting?) and thats the point where my patience just ran out on me. I did not want to be humiliated in front of everybody so i accelerated speed and power my movements where still contolled and did not mean to harm him. The carefull viewer can see that i am trying to keep eye contact with the person behind the camera: GM Leung Ting. I was hopeing for him to stop this demonstration and if you play the original footage you can hear me asking him to translate to LUN KAI that i refuse to be hit ( german ).
Lun Kai and I parted amicably..
We parted ways based on mutual respect and on a amicable manner. as we said goodbye he gave thanks to me for controlling my punches and even said: “ that i would one day be at the level of GGM YIP MAN“ seriously if he would have felt like he has been insulted or shamed do you realy think he would have made these incredible compliments? I think not.
But thats not it. When the other three masters heard about what had happened they did not show up to the negotiated meeting point. it was obvious that i had accomplished my task wich was bestowed upon me by GM Leung Ting. It took a certain period of time till i realized what the meaning of that meeting really was.
In retrospect the real question would be: who benefited from that „meeting“? wich was already published by the EWTO magazine ( issue 18 ) and stated: that from that day on the chinese police will be trained by european instructors. It was all about money power and influence hopeing to establish european Wing Tsun and help it to spread across China.
I personaly had no interest at all in shaming LUN KAI in public. Before releasing this footage my Sifu ( GM Kernspecht ) did not even know about the excistance of this footage till he was told about it 6 months later. i personally would have never released the footage.
Each person who thinks that WT has spread by itself is completly wrong.
All critics should know that times back then were the way they were and you would have to live it in order to understand it. Every single one of us who had a higher master rank were a part of a big system and our responsibilty was to do the unpopular jobs while others would stand inside the big picture purely and innocent. Each person who thinks that WT has spread by itself is completly wrong. WT will not work if its not worked trough all of us. We helped to broaden it my fellows and i. We who helped to delevop the movement as we did back then on our trip trough China.
I was first to join my Sifu Kernspecht in Eutin my student Sifu Alan came along with us to meet up with the German Police Special Forces( SEK ). In Italy i demonstrated WT to the Italian Police on several occasions the Italian WT Chief Instructor was my personal translator. My effort inside the EWTO is to constantly hold seminars where i can convice and facinate others for the art form. I attended to 2 Budo shows i did demonstrations of the art form in Thailand i trained in Greece and Cyprus as a WT Chief Instructor. I had 16 schools in the district of Baden-Württemberg Germany. I had countless fights and was constantly challenged all of that lies in the past. I did that in order to make WT popular and to give you the oppertunity to learn WT! WT is the basis of a lot of other movements that arose from it you can find them all over Germany and on a international basis
Now you are in for it! And now i would like to address my word to the anonymous person that dosnt seem to be able to criticize me or other Masters and that wants to dirty up my name. Why not write with your real name? just give us your full address and tell us what you have done for the cause? a lot of people in this world will never get to know themselves cause the are to worried about others.
It is undeniable, that i have made mistakes but who hasnt? and who can hounestly believe that they are free from flaws? It is only important to learn from these mistakes. Knowadays 10 15 20 years ahead of those times i have a different view on a lot of things and i look at things from a diffrent perspective. The way i see myself is a good example for what im saying. How come no one complained about the footage when i was still a master for the EWTO? They started to clean dirty laundry after i left and turned my back on them and as so often their are a lot of people talking that shouldnt be talking and should rather shut up!
And what exactly is going on today? suddenly somebody starts to bring that footage back up and people that dont even know where Fatshan is in China nor know what kind of status LUN KAI has in that country are starting to attack me!
Just to have proof and evidence of what i am saying is true i walked down to the basement of my house to gather up all the material for the public eye to see what really went down on that day. this will not be the last detailed insight i will share with you guys out there during my 30 year career. I will digitalize that footage and present it to the public in abetter quality i gatherd up a lot of interesting material and everything i share with you will have evidence and proof attached to it. Some are gonna hate me for that others will encourage and thank me for it. I will make sure that it will work in the cause of keeping my name clean, but it shall also enlighten minds and be a factor for peace.
to you out there who are loving and loyal
I would like to send greetings
Sifu Anastasios Panagiotopoulos
My meeting with Lun Kai part 2
Now that the waves around the topic LUN KAI finally calmed down. I feel it is about time for me to give thanks to some representatives of various styles. It does not matter if your opinion is neutral or even criticaly acclaimed.
It was to be expected that numerous unprofessional insults and judgements towards Master LUN KAI and myself would occur. Internetforums lay the foundation for that behaviour. You spew about three to four sentences out there send them of and feel like its a masterpiece!
Of course i was happy to receive all these E mails and i beg your pardon if i dont answer each and everyone of them.
- Condemning or being judgemental towards GM Leung Ting referring to this topic from my point of view is only possible in a speculative manner. Not even i know what was said in chinese before the meeting and regarding my Sifu K.R. Kernspecht i would hope that he found out about the meeting and its agenda after we came back.
- LUN KAI was not told to teach me nor was he in the postition to correct me nor did i asked him to perform Chi-Sao with me. Everything that was said before our Chi-Sao altercation was translated from Chinese to English and from English to German. If any misconceptions occured during that process then i will have to say that it is not my fault! When he attempted to correct me i clearly demonstrated to him that i was not interested in him doing so. If i would have steped out of the central line between us as he wished for me to do i would have been an easy target to him. He did not react to me at all. The least of us would be keen on instructing a person that shows no interest and does not want to be corrected especially a chinese Kung Fu Master.
- The clash between the traditional Chinese Chi-Sao as it is teached in China and the one being teached in Europe was not my idea.
- The meeting was not of a competitive spirit it was suposed to be a technical comparison between the two and the Chi- Sao teached bei Leung Ting won.
- Leaving the hotelroom was not an option for me cause it was my room!
- The report shows that nobody was hurt and all of the other allegations concerning that issue are just speculations.
- While i was preforming Chi-sao with him i was moving slowly from the very begining. LUN KAI defended my first attempt of striking him and as he started to move more rapidly i just reacted and thats how the bondage from the 4th form took place. why was that the wrong reaction Chi-Sao consits of action and reaction!
- If i would have been in his place i would have stoped after the first time we got tied up right after i attempted my strike. I would have praised the Chi-Sao by Leung Ting and saved my face. Instead of doing so he ran his head against the wall determined to hit me. More experienced fighters know that you can only defend so i defended myself by openly counter attacking him.
- When i first met LUN KAI he was 69 years of age and has never lost a fight he is known and respected for that. He is a man of great influence in Fatshan. At one of the meals we sat at a big round table. A lot of Sifus embracing different stylez were there and everyone that stood up walked at or walked away from him took a bow before LUN KAI. He himself thought that he is the only true student of GM YIP MAN and had no respect nor recognition for the Leung Ting techniques of the European System.
No matter, how the meeting could have ended it was meant for a person to lose. If my techniques would have not been at his level of skill and if i would have got beaten up then my career would of been over since. I mean everybody would have taunted me. By the way i acted i am the badguy to some that was hitting on a old Chinese man. I chose the lesser of the two evils. Their has always been jealousy and envy.
I have announced that i will continue to work with pictures texts and video footage about the pioneerdays of WT. I will report to you about all the things going on in the backround ( and all the bottomless pits ). Their are alot more reports of my journey trough China. They will not be releasesed ( at least not trough the internet).
Sifu Anastasios Panagiotopoulos
Email - Sifu Bertrand Lim
Hi Sifu Anastasios Panagiotopoulos,
just a email to say, good video and you have tremendous skill
We are not looking at a young man versus a old man. We are seeing 2 very skilled martial artist having an exchange. If Lun Kai, a very famous wingchun master in Fatshan had outclassed you, what would people say? That he was the great master that they said he was? There is no dishonour in being outclassed, there is however shame in not being humble and realising that defeat brings progress and higher levels of growth. We chinese have a saying, win and lose, is a common thing.
Today many people are using ip man’s name, lun kai, gwok fu, to earn money or fame.
You showed a good exchange and show superior hand speed, and control over the mainland system. And its evident you were controlling your blows so as not to hurt Sifu Lun Kai.
To me this supports where Ip Man learnt from Leung Bik after learning the fatshan system of Chan Wah Shun. And we know some people claiming Leung Bik did not exist. Your relaxation and speed, control shown is what set Ip Man aside from the other students in fatshan, where it was a harder strength based system. The yin yang fusion was demonstrated here. Leung Jan in the later days taught Kulo Wingchun, that had a softer internal art approach.
Incidently, I was asked how would Ip Man system look, with Leung Bik’s influence. This video was what I direct the person to, it speaks volumes
Kudos to you Sifu from Singapore,
Bertrand Lim
Answer to Sifu Bertrand Lim
Hi Sifu Bertrand Lim,
Your email is an honor for me. Thank you very much.
On that occasion I went with my Si Gung Leung Ting to Fatshan as Master and not as Student. As one can see on a picture, I was not allowed to sit as everybody else on group pictures, although even other Sifus of other Kung Fu styles were present. I had to stand behind Lun Kai. I was not accepted as Master until our encounter in Wing Chun.
We can see on the video that I always went back, because I did not want to harm Lun Kai. Finally, it was he who increased the tempo and not me.
I invite my critics to ask themselves the following question:
What was Sifu Lun Kai´s intention? Did he want to take a rise out of me in order to present himself? Didn´t I have to lose a reputation, too?
There wasn´t and there is no reason for me to compromise Sifu Kun Kai or other valued masters. If I wanted to do so, another video of this journey of my archive would have been published. It would be a pleasure for me, if we could watch it together some time, because it is also an interesting study of the differences.
In addition, since when is an older man of Wing Chun not dangerous? You gave the best example:
Grand Master Yip Man.
One thing is for sure: If I would travel to Fatshan again, Sifu Lun Kai and me would sit at the same table again. We didn´t say goodbye as enemies.
Best regards
Sifu Anastasios Panagiotopoulos